Jane Beddall explains what a conflict coach or elder mediator does to help families navigate helping their loved ones.
https://www.dovetailresolutions.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/janebeddall/
https://www.parentgiving.com/elder-care/elder-mediation-the-new-crisis-counseling-part1/
Katherine Cocks0:02
Hi, my name is Kathy. I've been a geriatric nurse for over 10 years. Many times when I would meet with family members of aged loved ones, they didn't always know what to do. I started this podcast knowledge for caregivers, to assist them with practical suggestions as they assist their own loved ones age with dignity and grace. Welcome back to knowledge for caregivers. I am here to talk to Jane Beddall. She has a her own podcast about conflict. And that's why I really wanted to talk to Jane, I'm gonna let Jane kind of tell you a little bit about her background, because she has a lot of experience dealing with conflicts. Jane, just tell me a little bit about your background and how you got into being fascinated by conflict.
Jane Beddall0:56
Well, thank you, Kathy, let me say first, that your focus and your podcast is such an important area. So valuable, so challenging. And so many of us are going to have to deal with something in that area. But we don't know anything. And often, we're just thrown into it. And we're just clueless and swimming in an ocean. We don't know what to do with. So fantastic. I tip my hat to you to take that on. It's very, very good. My interest in conflict goes way back. And sometimes people say did you live in a family where people fought all the time or refuse to ever admit anything? Neither one? I don't know exactly why I have found it interesting for so long. But decades, literally, of being interested in? How do we get into conflict? And how do we get out again, I started as a lawyer, but even then I had a deep interest in more broadly, that question of what can we do? And how can we do it better? I became a mediator, although I've never worked with with divorcing couples, I've always been interested in relationships where people want to stay together. families dealing with difficult things, family businesses, extended family, sometimes they are sharing something, Mom and Dad bought a nice little cottage way back in the 50s. Now that land is worth something, and what do you know, they're three kids trying to figure out what to do about it. But they're hoping to stay together. And that, to me is the more interesting thing than let's figure out how to end this relationship, we're going to limit it as much as we possibly can. So I work as a mediator, and also as a conflict coach, which is even less well known than mediation. That is a way to work one on one with someone to help them get better at dealing with tough situations that come up again, and again, typically with family members. And they know how difficult is going to be and we work on okay, this has been the challenge that has been coming at you for so many years. How will you respond in a way that works for you? And then the flip side? How can you try to say the things that need to be said, Without instantly sending that sibling of yours off the rails?
Katherine Cocks3:16
I think what you do is amazing, too. And thank you for being on the show. So tell me real basic. I know a little bit of here like arbitration. So let's start with arbitration, the difference between maybe arbitration and mediation,
Jane Beddall3:30
a great question, and one that is always worth answering. Most people never get involved with either one. So there's no good reason for them to understand the difference between the two. As an arbitrator, the person is going to make a decision. Sometimes it's a panel of three, but often it's one person, that arbitrator is going to make a decision, and it is binding. The way people ever get involved with arbitration is some kind of a contract almost always as a contract. Sometimes it's a contract that is so impossible to avoid, shall we say things like our cell phone agreements, they're going to have arbitration clauses in them. And the gist of it is, when you go to arbitration, I like to say that the courts have said, It's okay, go settle that on your own. You don't have to go through our process in the courts. But you can't come back if you didn't like the result. So it is very hard to overturn a decision made by an arbitrator. In contrast to that, mediation is always a voluntary process. People decide they want to do it. And the mediator helps the people involved. Sometimes it's two, sometimes it's more than two, to figure out a resolution that works for them. It's not up to the mediator to decide for them and announce it instead, the mediator works with them to find something and sometimes will say, good enough, perfect is probably not going to happen. If you could both have or all three of you could have everything you wanted, you wouldn't have any troubles and you wouldn't be talking to a mediator.
Katherine Cocks5:15
Right? So it sounds like and the reason that I had really wanted to talk to you, because I'll tell you, basically, I see two different situations in my job, I see one where there's a family member that maybe is not managing money or exploiting money. So they they go to court to sort of resolve that. And, and I'm not going to get into that, because that does kind of seem like if somebody's not taking care of their parents assets, they kind of go to court to kind of get that resolved, so that I understand. But my other thing is, then I get families where sometimes I'm coming in. And there's just all this conflict, and I'm sitting there to go, I do not know what to do, because they're like, We want mom dad to get help. We want Mum and Dad to move. So it sounds like in those types of situation where it's very emotional, they're having trouble making a decision, that maybe they could benefit from a type of conflict coach to help them navigate that. And how would that kind of work?
Jane Beddall6:11
Well, there are a couple of options one, and of course, I'm sure you hear this all the time, the best root of all is to prevent the conflict in the first place. So mom, dad, get out there and say what it is you want, and write it down. And that will help instead of your kids trying your kids who may be in their 60s, trying to figure out what you really want and fighting over. But Mom told me, This is what she wants? Oh, no, no, I can't believe she really would want that. So difficult. And by the same token, preventing just the burden and the opportunity for conflict of promising mom or dad, we will always or we will never. And sometimes your best heart is there your best interests are there. But you can't do that you can't fulfill that promise that you wanted to. But you can promise us that we will always do what we think is the very best, we love you, we care about you, we will try our very best. So when the arguments are happening, and that's more typically what I'm involved in. Previously, when we're trying to prevent the conflict in the first place. Sometimes people will be involved in what's called elder mediation. And it is all about helping families with these tough questions about aging loved ones, not necessarily parents, but frequently, almost always. They can be questions that are fraught with concerns about money, concerns about care, concerns about who is doing their fair share, and how on earth you to find that. Concerns about things that change over time. So the solution that made sense for mom, in 2021, may make no sense at all by July 2022. And recognizing that evolution can be hard, but important. So mediator can work with everyone who's willing to be involved. And that includes the loved one, to the extent that it works for that loved one to be there. It is important to put everyone in their very best situation, I'm sure that some of your listeners are aware of the idea of sundowning. If that's the time of day that someone is not at their best. That's not when you have difficult conversations, whether it's a mediation with a paid outsider, or whether it's just a tough conversation that needs to be had. conflict coaching works, too, if there is a situation and these do happen, where one or more person in the conflict says, No way, we're not going to have an outsider here. We're not discussing this with a mediator. Or sometimes one person says, there's nothing wrong here, everything's fine, because that person at that moment, either is or feels he or she is in a position of strength or power in this conflict. That way, we're just gonna do it my way. Why would I involve anybody else? That's when conflict coaching can be particularly interesting, because it doesn't require everyone to sign on. It can be one person who says we can't go on like this, I have to figure out a better way forward. And someone like me, I use a particular model of conflict coaching called synergy CI, N E, R, G Y. We go through very specific seven stages of helping someone understand what is it I really want to accomplish here? What's in my way, and working with practice actual practice sessions of the client being themselves and the other person, someone they know so well. And we can start with if I start saying it this way. Oh, now I know what's going to happen. For instance, one family just worked out that the oldest member of the family was very bright, but had a very limited education formally, everyone else had more education. Everything that came toward her was viewed by her as an attack on her relatively low level of education. So the other sibling that I worked with, was practicing how to have a conversation about what really mattered without hitting those ticking time bombs, those hot buttons of her sibling, so they could have a serious conversation about important things. Then, on the other hand, when they come at you, and you know, this has been going wrong for the last 30 years, how are you ready to deal with that?
Katherine Cocks10:52
So I'm in that situation where I'm in that room, and nobody can agree. And I'm feeling really awkward because they're arguing. And the kids, that's when I could possibly later on not right their of course in front of everyone, but even take a child, if they're, you know, family members not willing to meet with mediation or something like that, that I can come and say, Why don't you meet with a conflict coach? Because you would help them identify, I would assume those hot button issues? And how do you help them identify that for the other person, if you just have one, maybe one party?
Jane Beddall11:32
What's fascinating is almost always it's people who know each other very well. And they know exactly what it is. And they have, we actually talk about the not so merry go round of conflict. These people have done this over and over again. So it's, it's uh, identifying them is sometimes easier than the process of dealing with them. But sometimes we do have to step back and say, okay, know what's going on, when I mentioned, how much is this going to cost? For instance, to get the quality of care? We think mom should have a needs right now. My brother loses it all. Now why would that be happening? Is that because the brother feels? The money's not there? Is it He feels no one's trusted him in the past about making decisions? Is he personally worried about his own finances? And that just rolls right over every time? You won't say that out loud, maybe. But there may be something that people can when they stop and think about it, what's going on there, and they can often pretty quickly figure that out. And then sometimes figuring out what your own hot buttons are, can be quite interesting. Why does that bother me so much? And how do I be ready for it? And that can be the genuine practice of one that's very popular in families. What do you know? You're the youngest. We also have what do you know, you don't practice law in the state? What do you know, you're not a doctor who specializes in care of elderly people, some sort of put down that can be so painful for someone who feels I am qualified to have a voice in this decision. And I've been hearing this for so long, helping that person to get over that instinctive reaction. pause for a moment, a big believer and taking a pause when you can, and responding in a way that makes things go in a more productive direction.
Katherine Cocks13:44
One of the hot button things that I see. And I don't know if you see that is sometimes guilt, the kids are saying, but that if you fall, I'm going to feel guilty or if you don't do this, and this happens to you, I'm going to feel guilty. And I just feel kind of lost because I'm kind of like, well, you know, it's kind of their decision is that something that a conflict coach can also help people with
Jane Beddall14:09
so important, Kathy, because that I'm going to call it almost a border between I care about you and I protect you, and allowing that person have self determination. This is the way I want to live, I understand my mind is fine. I'm taking a risk by doing this. But that's the way I'm going to live my life. So tough. And sometimes it really is helpful, even if they won't all come together to have that conversation. For the person who's willing to get involved with coaching, to have a chance to think these things through calmly with someone who has no judgment. i It doesn't matter to me what people decide to do. That's not my job to tell them either as a mediator or as a coach. This is what you need to do, but to help them work through. Okay, this is the way I need to go so that I am protecting myself from feeling Just unspeakable guilt. And also allowing, in this case, I'll say, my father, to do what he feels is right with his own life. But sometimes it's really hard to do on your own. You need to have someone help walk through it through with you. Someone who again, has no judgment, but has done this kind of work before and feels comfortable with the conflict, because not everyone does. internal or external.
Katherine Cocks15:29
Yeah, cuz that's, that's definitely something I think, you know, I see a lot is the, the parent and the child, mostly, like you said, you know, in the child's like, I get better all the time. And yet, you don't want to pay for help. And so they feel the guilt. And then there's also the children who are like, I think this is the way mom and dad should go, maybe mom and dad are kind of pliable. And then you've got all the children kind of pulling. And have you seen those kinds of conflicts to where conflict coach? Or if they all come together, a mediator would work. But if only one, then they would have to go to the conflict coach, is that correct?
Jane Beddall16:07
Exactly. Right, Kathy, and that, to me is one of the great things about the coaching ideas, sometimes families will or a member of the family, I should say, well contact me. So relieved, we found someone who can help. Now we'll go forward. Well, I can't force other family members to come literally or figuratively to the table. If we're at a table. What's quite interesting, just as a side note, is, since we've been doing so much more by phone and video than we did before the pandemic started, it has been fascinating to see how well that works. Sometimes that's an advantage. No one is necessarily exhausted by the time they get there because of the traffic problems or whatever. People are in their own comfort zone. And sometimes that remove of the person who makes me crazy, is there through a screen and is not across the table for me. All of those can be advantages. But yes, the idea of someone being able to, when they talk with me, they get excited, oh, boy, this is going to be great. No, I can't force your brother to come. The next option can be the conflict coaching. Sometimes people go right for that other times, it's when this happens that others say I don't care, or I won't do it, whatever it may be. But that can be very helpful, very helpful. And I would just say also inline prevention from the beginning, but also as things progress. I'm thinking of a situation quite some years ago, where there were two siblings and their parent was in quite advanced dementia, and was living at home with a person who was described by these two siblings, as the girlfriend. That person described herself as the partner they had been together for 21 years. It's not as if this person just comes zooming in out of nowhere. However, this partner was terrible about transparency. There was money being spent out of an account that the two children adult children thought should not be accessed by this person. And there was terrible reluctance to show where that money was being spent. Totally appropriately it sounded like but not willing to say so or show it that would have believed so much trouble. Probably they would have never contacted me in the first place. If it just showed them just show the receipts. No one's going to be angry that you got a better mattress. No one's angry that you got a recliner to allow comfort in the home. But the stubbornness, sometimes the draw the line in the sand, I really get the little huffy. These people are asking questions. And then I get huffy that this person won't answer my questions. Just taking a break, taking a breath, maybe we can find a way without drawing lines in the sand and work these things out. And you won't need me at all.
Katherine Cocks19:11
So when you talk about prevention, unfortunately, I'm sure you like me, I kind of see people when they get in crisis, and they didn't have the conversations, what are some basic conversations they should have with their aging? You know, if they know their aging, they know at some point, maybe they're getting a little weaker, they're still managing, what are some things that they can do the prevention that you talk about?
Jane Beddall19:34
Let me start with the idea of how you even broach the subject some years ago, and I believe it was the company called home instead. And I don't have a relationship with them at all. But they had something they refer to as the 40/70 rule, I thought was fabulous. The idea was when the first parent hits 70, or the first child hits 40. It's time to start having those conversations. That's what's great about that is it takes away that, well, why are you raising it now, it's not my fault that I ran the car to the side of the garage. That was the fault of the squirrel that ran in front of me. It's like, Nope, this is just something we should be doing. And starting the very beginning with some expectations of health care, end of life decisions, finances, I don't think there are very many adult children who really want to be responsible for their parents or aunts and uncles, even financial well being. But it's really helpful to know before things are falling apart, what we can all expect. And how we can have conversations about that as things change, because they do change, understandings about and this I'm going to go into conflict talk for a moment, we sometimes discuss interests and positions, my position might be, you have to give me x. And the reason I really want you to give me x is because I need this other thing that is my interest. The most classic example, I'll be brief about this, but it's a wonderful example. It's not mine, it's been around for a long time. One orange, two people. One person says, I need one whole orange sodas, the other in a conversation, those positions are revealed to have behind them different and compatible interests. One person needs the juice of one whole orange, the other person needs the zest of one whole orange. But if you allow yourself to go past those positions of I must have the orange to the interests. That can be very helpful. For example, in the context of I never want to leave my house. What is that really about? Probing? Okay, Mom, I hear you saying that? What is it about? What are you telling me? Because it can be different things. One is, I have a fear of moving to somewhere else. It might be I never want to be in any kind of institutional setting. One of it might be I'm overwhelmed by the prospect of of packing up and moving. I don't know how to do that. Probing can get you some information, for instance. So mom, would you be okay with the idea that you can't leave the house that you were here all day every day? 24/7? Well, no, no, no, I would hate that. Okay, so what is it about living in the house that you do like? And what would be things that would make it as close as we can get to as good as we can make it for you to make you be able to go places? Well, they do have some wonderful adult programs now that they didn't have years ago, that might be something it really is a perfect answer. There might be a situation of, well, I don't want to live with one of my kids. That's really what I'm talking about. The don't want to hurt them. I don't really want to say that out loud. Let them say it, and give them an opportunity to say, these are my priorities. So you can work to do the best you can without the promise. Without the promise oh, gee, mom will never oh, gee, mom will always it may not work. And then the guilt comes in. We promised.
Katherine Cocks23:26
And they'll if their mind isn't they'll remind you that Yeah. Yeah, I really like I've been listening to another one. Podcast on caregiving any said somebody if the change your promise, like, I'll get you the best care possible, you know, if it's not possible to stay home, so I like that. I like that. Well, you have just given me great information. I do want you to tell me about your what you do and how people can reach you essentially an hour doing conflict coaching, you know, you can do it virtually. But if people were looking is there like a national organization or something that does that, or how do people look for that type of thing?
Jane Beddall24:08
Such a great question, Kathy. And that is a challenge. There are a few people out there who do conflict coaching, there are not very many of us. There are a few people who do elder mediation quite regularly. I do not do it all the time. I do it sometimes I was trained in it quite a few years ago. I am afraid that really your best bet is some Google searching. And then asking questions. If you talk to someone and it just feels like it's not where you want to be. Don't be there. If they won't answer questions. That's a bad sign. Certainly websites can give some insight. I will tell you when I updated my company website a few years ago, I did not want to have videos and I was told you have to have videos. And I know that I have had families who were initially concerned about I don't want to do this, but they could see and hear me into some I wasn't decided I was not scary. I was not going to be mean to them or make matters worse. So you can find me personally on LinkedIn. Under Jane Beddall, it's an unusual enough name. There are very few of us out there. My company name is dovetail resolutions, you can find that at dovetail resolutions.com. And as you mentioned, Kathy, I have a podcast. It's called crafting solutions to conflict. It is weekly. I started in January 2019. And been going along with some wonderful guests and also an opportunity to share some insights that I have, that I hope will be helpful to people who are facing conflict, which is just plain inevitable. It is a part of our lives, but it doesn't have to ruin us.
Katherine Cocks25:52
I hope you have found this interview helpful. And I will have all of Jane's information in the show notes. I definitely have learned a lot about how to use a conflict coach or a mediator when we hit those roadblocks among family members. Thank you for listening and going on this caregiving journey with me. I hope you have enjoyed this podcast. If you have found it helpful, then share it. If you wish to contact me for consulting services you can reach me at www.kathysconsulting.com and Kathy's is spelled K A Thys. Remember, our content is meant for informational purposes only, and not to replace the advice of healthcare professionals.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai